Curse

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 31, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh

ppl that by there avatar jun 08 should not call other ppl nobbs cough cough

I don't know if you're aware of this, but your ingame account is not linked to your Guild Wars Guru account. Therefore it doesn't really say anything, and you have to judge people by their posts, not their join date.

By the way, learn the difference between noob and newbie. Learn to spell while you're at it.

~ Dan ~ · Jan 31, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

okay, everyone raise your hands if your in the roster of the top 10 GvG guilds, that means acctivly playing ing GvG, also anyone raise your hand if you have won any offical tournoments lately? No? Then I see no experts' here. It is this kinda of mentality that seems to radiate off these fourms.

Didn't realise you had to be in a top 10 GvG guild to know how to play Dervish well. Sorry, my mistake. You seem to be pro enough to know what you're on about.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 31, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

you werent agreeing with the person. you were agreeing with me, and saying the same thing.

ok my post was misread kinda like I thought I was agreeing with you about the poster un installing it the second comment probolly shoulda been better directed but it was sent at the poster who should un install

Sirius-NZ · Feb 01, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

[skill]Avatar of Grenth[/skill] + [skill]Wild Blow[/skill] > [skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Guardian[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill]

[skill]Avatar of Grenth[/skill] + [skill]Wild Blow[/skill] < being blinded.

Of course, there are weaknesses of any build, but blinding is absurdly popular in many PvP situations, meaning you need a way to deal with it... if you have an RC monk you're set, but there's still the issue of whether enchant stripping is worth an elite when you can get a necro to do it cheaper (or you could use rending touch, which is also unblockable last I checked, except with a very uncommon skill).

If it had a longer duration it would be fairly well-balanced, I suspect - at least enough to warrant use in TA and HA - in random it's still a risky proposition since it's difficult to be sure what the monk will have. (Most builds I see from people who seem to know what they're doing do have restore condition, though.)

BaconSoda · Feb 01, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

okay, everyone raise your hands if your in the roster of the top 10 GvG guilds, that means acctivly playing ing GvG, also anyone raise your hand if you have won any offical tournoments lately? No? Then I see no experts' here. It is this kinda of mentality that seems to radiate off these fourms.

AoB is used because people enjoy to use it, play around and experiment. So tell me what is wrong with the concept of the skill that it gives you Holy damage which ignores armor, a good speed boost and extra armor. Tell me what is wrong with it without comparing it to another skill, because I know there are better and worse skills.

If GW is centered around skills, what would the point of talking about something without comparing it to another skill? It's like saying tell me how Shadowy Burden is bad without talking about Siphon Speed. Also, I've played this game for almost 3 yrs, and the only reason I don't high end PvP is because it isn't any fun anymore....During the first summer of release, I could grab 7 random guildies and go pwn up, and my guild was in the top 25 guilds at the time with this same strategy. Now, though, you need to have awesome coordination, and extremely specialized builds, making high end PvP no fun at all. Even though I do not PvP, I do consider myself a better player at GW, not necessarily an expert, but I know there is more to being an expert than playing tournaments or GvG....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Of course, there are weaknesses of any build, but blinding is absurdly popular in many PvP situations, meaning you need a way to deal with it... if you have an RC monk you're set, but there's still the issue of whether enchant stripping is worth an elite when you can get a necro to do it cheaper (or you could use rending touch, which is also unblockable last I checked, except with a very uncommon skill).

It used to have a longer duration, but it was nerfed to keep it from being uberly overpowered. [skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill]+[skill]Eremite's Attack[/skill] with [skill]Avatar of Grenth[/skill] is 2 enchants removed in less than 2 seconds while being able to end anti-spike stances like [skill]Balanced Stance[/skill] with [skill]Wild Blow[/skill]. You also heard of [skill]Restore Condition[/skill] since you mentioned it. Or mayhaps even the non elite [skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill] on an ally? Coordination with your team is your friend. And, if I remember right, AoG removed enchantments before the hit was ever calculated. It was way overpowered before, but with the newer duration it made room for other elites. But then again, I haven't GvG'd in 2 yrs (as stated above), so what do I know?

Coloneh · Feb 01, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

AoG cannot be balanced in the meta eiter way. If the duration is long enough o use t, its stupidly overpowered. If the duration is short enough to make up for the insane effect no one will waste a space on their bar for it.

failed skill.

Yggdrasil · Feb 01, 2008, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

AoG cannot be balanced in the meta eiter way. If the duration is long enough o use t, its stupidly overpowered. If the duration is short enough to make up for the insane effect no one will waste a space on their bar for it.

failed skill.

Would making it like Rend Enchant., where you take damage for monk enchant removal help it I wonder? That way there would be at least a little disincentive to just wail on everyone, or a way to work punish doing that.

Edit: I agree that w/o changing its' effect this one is probably unbalanceable.

Coloneh · Feb 01, 2008, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

Would making it like Rend Enchant., where you take damage for monk enchant removal help it I wonder? That way there would be at least a little disincentive to just wail on everyone, or a way to work punish doing that.

Edit: I agree that w/o changing its' effect this one is probably unbalanceable.

it would be a very strange mechanic as forms are un-removable, you would have to attack through the damage. it could work though.

Dervo · Feb 01, 2008, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Are there any dervish out there that pug and don't use this skill? Lol, decided to try destructions depths with a pug not too long ago and the leader accepted 2 dervish after me. I was the only one not using AoB, in such a late area of the game, against destroyers (armor bonus of great dwarven armor beats AoB hands down) I find people still using this aweful skill. All I can think of why they use it is cause wammos seem to not be as popular anymore... so the mending wammo players must've latched onto this skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

okay, everyone raise your hands if your in the roster of the top 10 GvG guilds, that means acctivly playing ing GvG, also anyone raise your hand if you have won any offical tournoments lately? No? Then I see no experts' here. It is this kinda of mentality that seems to radiate off these fourms.

AoB is used because people enjoy to use it, play around and experiment. So tell me what is wrong with the concept of the skill that it gives you Holy damage which ignores armor, a good speed boost and extra armor. Tell me what is wrong with it without comparing it to another skill, because I know there are better and worse skills.

Oye, people play around and experiment and wind up using AoB? No, I think not, I think that the reason they wind up with AoB is because the bonuses to it sound cool, use it... and never play around and experiment with other skills. As an elite, it is quite pathetic. I will not comment on pvp as I do not get involved with that (although I do know that AoM is the favorite for most pvp types). However, in pve, there is no reason (other than actually running) why you need a run boost and even if for some reason you think you do, pious haste is better for the job. The holy damage is easily replaceable by other skills, one pve from factions so if someone didn't have it I would understand, but heart of holy flames should at the very least be available. Then there is the armor, the best (but still pathetic) use of AoB. When a paragon can boost the armor of the entire team, I just don't see the need for this benefit from the skill, even with the inability to boost armor over 25 by combining two skills (single skills can exceed the max of course).

If there was some kind of sundering ability added it would make it a bit better, but I think that with so many things it does already, it would just get people even more narrowminded about where this elite stands compared to the others. What I would think would make it reasonable would be to make it affect all partymembers (maybe tone down the run rate to 25% to be fair to charge) of course, this wouldn't make sense as it is a form.

Ensign · Feb 01, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

okay, everyone raise your hands if your in the roster of the top 10 GvG guilds

Hi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

AoB is used because

From my brief experiences pugging, I concluded that people use Avatar of Balthazar because the combination of heavy armor and the speed buff made it rather difficult for them to die. This is important in the bad player / PUG environment because Dervishes take damage like Assassins but unlike Assassins are expected to go in first and get aggro. Since players that die a lot tend to get singled out and blamed for party failures (when the team isn't busy blaming the Monks), an elite that makes you not die all that much is rather desirable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

gives you Holy damage which ignores armor

No it doesn't. It's still armor respecting damage, it simply is not affected by conditional armor vs. type bonuses that some foes have, and doubles your damage against undead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

Tell me what is wrong with it without comparing it to another skill

Every single skill in the entire game is good if you do not consider opportunity costs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

If it had a longer duration it would be fairly well-balanced

Back when Avatar of Grenth had a longer duration it was decidedly imbalanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

AoG cannot be balanced in the meta eiter way. If the duration is long enough o use t, its stupidly overpowered.

The best way to put it that I've heard is that when Avatar of Grenth is good, Guild Wars turns into World of Warcraft.

Choo-choo! All aboard the Dervish train!

Div · Feb 01, 2008, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

okay, everyone raise your hands if your in the roster of the top 10 GvG guilds

1. Way to be elitist.
2. Way to be PvP elitist in a PvE forum.
3. Way to be PvP elitist in a PvE forum when you don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:

AoB is used because people enjoy to use it, play around and experiment.

There's nothing wrong with experimentation, but there's something wrong when people overestimate the quality of this skill.

Quote:

So tell me what is wrong with the concept of the skill that it gives you Holy damage which ignores armor

No it doesn't. It makes it so anyone with +armor vs physical or +armor vs elemental don't get their bonuses, but it's not armor ignoring.

Quote:

a good speed boost and extra armor.

I'd personally use something like drunken master for extra speed boost (in addition to attack speed increase). The extra armor is pretty meh. I'll agree, it's probably the best looking skill on paper, but that's all it is: it just looks good in theory, but in practice isn't nearly as good.

Quote:

Tell me what is wrong with it without comparing it to another skill, because I know there are better and worse skills.

Tell me what is wrong with mark of protection then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Except for Masunume and Ensign,

Your wish is granted.

LightningHell · Feb 01, 2008, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

- Holy dmg: Can be useful but Judge's Insight is much better in PvP. In PvE, no need to talk, melee was never a good thing in PvE (I talk about HM and such.)

Whut?

Quote:

1. Way to be elitist.
2. Way to be PvP elitist in a PvE forum.
3. Way to be PvP elitist in a PvE forum when you don't know what you're talking about.

You forgot to say hi.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 01, 2008, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Back when Avatar of Grenth had a longer duration it was decidedly imbalanced.

Now that it has a short duration it's decidedly unused.

I detect a case for something in between!

~ Dan ~ · Feb 01, 2008, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Now that it has a short duration it's decidedly unused.

I detect a case for something in between!

If the duration is at any point that would make AoG worth using - it will be overpowered. The whole functionality of the skill needs to be changed.

Ensign · Feb 01, 2008, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

If the duration is at any point that would make AoG worth using - it will be overpowered. The whole functionality of the skill needs to be changed.

I agree with this statement. Avatar of Grenth has such a ridiculous effect that if it's useful at all, it's doing awful things to gameplay and the metagame. Without a rework it needs to be on the very edge of playability and no closer.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 01, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

That wouldn't hurt. AoB should be in on the action as well, though.

KalleDamos · Feb 01, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

1. Way to be elitist.
2. Way to be PvP elitist in a PvE forum.
3. Way to be PvP elitist in a PvE forum when you don't know what you're talking about.

This coming from the man who is posting in a thread why this skill and everyone who uses it sucks. Can you say, Hypocrite much? And I was using that as an example that most people on this fourm think they are the top 10% of guild wars when really they fall in the middle. they shouldn't call themselves experts. Last post in this thread by the way, don't want to start any trolling.

Shuuda · Feb 01, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

holymasamune may be elitist, but he's and elitist who knows what he's on about, so it's ok for him to be like that.

The thing with AoB is that your wasting an elite on things you can get with none elite skills. If I wanted a constant running stance, I'd use Pious Haste. AoM on the other hand, provides something that you cannot get anywhere else (immunity to conditions), and AoL can be good in Low end PvP for more damage.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 01, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

they shouldn't call themselves experts.

Because it's a well known fact that everyone else who isn't in the top 10 knows diddly-squat about what skills are good and what skills are shit, m i rite?

o ok

back to using Mending for me, then

(if you failed to see the sarcasm - you don't need to be in a pro guild to have a clue, btw)

Pyro maniac · Feb 01, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by KalleDamos

This coming from the man who is posting in a thread why this skill and everyone who uses it sucks. Can you say, Hypocrite much? And I was using that as an example that most people on this fourm think they are the top 10% of guild wars when really they fall in the middle. they shouldn't call themselves experts. Last post in this thread by the way, don't want to start any trolling.

you defined him as elitist actually